"The Life Of Gays..."

[DJ]

Originally Posted by bearthecross

Perhaps I should have said the first Homosexual act is found in Genesis.

Phew! At last we have almost got there! But not quite!

Originally Posted by bearthecross
The life of gays have been reported as Early as Genesis ....

You expanded on this, your incorrect statement by declaring "Jesus tells us to resist the Temptation of Sin.
So if a gay says I was born this way." and "So what should I do asked the gay person? You tell them just like any Sin don’t do it." So they "don't do it" and they are right with God are they? Rubbish and False Teaching! Don't do what? Don't get born a gay? - that is contradictory, confusing and unbiblical Bearthecross. A gay who is born gay cannot just not be born gay! No more that you who were born a sinner cannot 'not be born a sinner' You cannot stop being born a sinner - you will remain a born sinner (albeit a saved born sinner) but a born sinner neverthess, until the day you meet Jesus face to face. So who and what gives you the biblical authority to preach to the gay that he/she must stop being born a gay before he/she meets Jesus face to face?

For you to tell a born gay person to stop doing gay you are trying to do the work of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit by his regenereating power of new rebirth that stops the the born 'wired in' homosexuals desire - not you or me - The Holy Spirit does it in His Way, in His Time, by His cleansing regenerating Power - not just because you tell them to - you and I must not play at being Holy Spirit!

The 'life of gays' is not reported anywhere in Geneses!! I have clearly demonstrated with bible chapter and verse that what is reported in Genesis 19 is an account of the people (men and woman) who God had previously decided to destroy before ever they attempted sexual relations with the visitors who happened to be angels.

Genesis 18, at the risk of stating the obvious, comes before Genesis 19, In the earlier Chapter 18 we read that God had already decided to destroy Sodom and its heterosexual people (men and woman) before ever they attempted any homosexual gang rape described in the next chapter 19!

Just look at why GOD SAID (not what you have been taught or think or imagine) He was going to destroy the people (men and woman) of Sodom - I will use the KJV (Genesis 18 verse 20 to avoid 'bible version' disputes: "...the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;..."

Here God is telling Abraham WHY He is about to destroy all the people and their Cities....

1. Because the of the cry which according to the King James original translation is the Hebrew word za`aq which means, "cries of anguish, sorrow, distress and despair"

2. Because the cry was great. The original KJV translates great from the Hebrew word rab which translated means, "more numerous than."

3. Because the sin was very grievous. The first word very is translated from the Hebrew word dam m`od which means, "innumerable". The second word grievous is translated from the Hebrew word kabad which means "to be made heavy, be honoured, enjoy honour, be made abundant - to get oneself glory or honour, gain glory"

We see from this that it was God Himself who told us why He was about to destroy the people (men and woman) of Sodom, that is because he had heard innumerable cries of anguish and despair because of the of the desire of the men and woman of Sodom to get only gain for themselves honour and glory. From this grievous desire only for themselves resulted in misery and want suffered by others and they resorted to any evil means or method to rid themselves of any strangers with whom they may have to share anything of their wealth or food with - even to the point of sodomising them.

For you, Bearthecross, to state, as you did on our sister forum, that this is the "life of gays" is offensive, unbiblical, judgmental and just plain wrong and to many readers who are, or have been, homosexual is seen as a sin of homophobia and as Christians we should avoid such careless statements. I don't think it is appropriate for you try and justify your error by trying to expand the topic to the already 'done to death' of topic homosexuality and as I have already said, I am not going down that road with you.

It is biblically sufficient to preach that active homosexuality indulged in by Christian homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals, transsexuals and Asexuals is deliberate sin, which means: "... if we deliberately continue to sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but only the terrifying prospect of Judgment, or raging fire that will consume the enemies..." (Hebrews 10:26). Those who actively indulge in homosexual acts who have not received the knowledge (spirit) of truth (the unsaved unbeliever) are "condemned already" (John 3:18).

You can tell the condemned unbeliever who has not received the spirit of truth that active homosexuality is sin and hit him/her on the head with Genesis 19 and Leviticus 18 until he/she may, just may heed you and stop their active homosexual relationship. But they will do so without the power of the Holy Spirit and will become so weak and frustrated some have been known to kill themselves whilst still unsaved and condemned for heeding "the letter that killleth..." (2 Corinthians 3:6) before receiving "the life giving Spirit" 2 Corinthians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 15:45)

You have a great resposibility to teach your scripture right and preach it right otherwise their blood is on your hands! "...let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement." (James 3:1 NKJV). Christians are commanded to "preach the Good News" (Mark 16:15) to the unsaved, not teach Old Testament to the unsaved!

David

[rainbowgal]

DJ

Not being one to (get into the middle ) sit by when things are misunderstood, I feel compelled to say something just 1 time only.
Don't take this offensively please.

DJ you yourself had said in your last post.... "before ever they attempted any homosexual gang rape described in the next chapter 19! "
This statement says to me that there was a homosexual act in Genesis which is what BTC has been saying.
This was his point he was trying to get across. He didn't say anywhere that if they were right or wrong for doing such an act.
He was just merely stating that a homosexual act could be found in Genesis.



But I'm afraid that you are not understanding what BTC is actually saying still.

He to you STILL must NOT be using the correct words to get his point across.
He may and I read use words that changes what he is really saying. But then again there is the saying that " I'm at a loss for the right words".
Obviously this is still the case.

BTC I believe actually means that if a person is gay that no matter what
if they don't do any homosexual act that they can be forgiven by God.
But that if they don't and when they face God they have a very big chance of not being saved.

He is not IMO trying to say any 1 thing specifically but just would give advice to the homosexual to not engage in the Homosexual act.
BTC if I am wrong PLEASE!!!! correct me.

Everything in this thread is getting to technical to understand especially for newcomers that have just found Jesus.
Love and Peace

[DJ]

Originally Posted by rainbowgal

He was just merely stating that a homosexual act could be found in Genesis.

If that is what Bearthecross had in fact said, my reply and subequent discourse would have been entirely different!

He did not say "a homosexual act could be found in Genesis".

What he said was exactly (copy/pasted) "The life of gays have been reported as Early as Genesis when The men wanted to sleep with the 2 Angels..."

It was not 'gays' who were reported in Genesis, it was straights! Moreover it was not, as Bearthecross labelled the thread "Gay Religion". Furthermore Beatthecross's assertion the men wanted to SLEEP with two angels is wrong! They wanted to 'gang rape' what they thought was two men! And that is NOT THE LIFE OF GAYS !

Originally Posted by rainbowgal

"....if a person is gay that no matter what
if they don't do any homosexual act that they can be forgiven by God.
But that if they don't and when they face God they have a very big chance of not being saved."

If I am understanding you correctly, that is false teaching! To stop sinning, no matter what the sin is, is the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit AFTER YOU ARE SAVED! But that is another topic!

Originally Posted by rainbowgal

He is not IMO trying to say any 1 thing specifically but just would give advice to the homosexual to not engage in the Homosexual act. BTC if I am wrong PLEASE!!!! correct me.

And how does he (Bearthecross) advise the daily active, hot blooded, highly sexed, high level hormone, homosexual how to cope with sudden uncontrollable frustrating mind-bending desire for a sexual relationship, who has no knowledge or personal experience of the strengthening - life changing - quickening power of the Holy Spirit? I REALLY WANT YOUR ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION BEFORE WE HAVE MORE SUICIDES OF THE UNSAVED AND THOSE WHO HAVE JUST FOUND JESUS AND STILL STRUGGLING WITH HOMOSEXUAL DESIRE !!!!!!!

Originally Posted by rainbowgal

Everything in this thread is getting to technical to understand especially for newcomers that have just found Jesus ...

With great respect you are not in any position to gauge the intellectual ability or learning ability of others, newcomers or not newcomers, to understand what is being said here, or their ability to ask and question until they do understand. Everything I say I support by biblical text and Jesus said the Holy Spirit will teach and guide them; or perhaps you don't understand that bit of God's Word.

p.s. I have no idea what BTC means - it is much too technical for even an 'old-comer' that Jesus found 22 years ago

[bearthecross]

Hey David

I am sorry but rainbowgal and I are leaving this forum.

Honestly, I don't like to do this knowing that you are the only member here. But let me explain in simple terms why we are leaving:

I'm not going to mention any names because they may speak on their own behalf. But from what I have heard is that when you post a debate with others you make them feel inadequate.
There's been talk about how you have been treating others. From what I'm understanding this board is vacant because you have had to many harsh debates with others and making them uncomfortable to be here at the Lounge.

One person noted David J is scaring everyone away from the Lounge.
Despite what anybody has said or felt I wanted to be able to come post here with you and hoping it would be peacefully.
I'm a fair person and wanted to see if we could get along.

The thread that I started now wasn't a false teaching it was merely just a mistake. A lot of people haven't read as much of the Bible that you have.
But whatever I do know I try my best. You appear to be going into a tizzy because I said gay life instead of a homosexual act.

Ok when you take a look at this passage that these men wanted to have sex with these angels it would appear they were gay because commonly gay men would have sex with gay men.

Now in Chapter 18 Genesis God said he as going to destroy this place.
God didn't mention any of the sins they were doing.
And because God revealed this to us later in the Bible IMO that it was not so important to have it written in Chapter 18.

For example in the very beginning of the Bible we see the creation of the earth. God forming man and woman and the falling of man in Chapter 3.
Even though the fall of Lucifer happened much earlier in history the Lord wanted us to know first about who created this world and how it was created. Later in the Bible he reveals Lucifer even though it was much earlier then he created the earth.
Now you see in Genesis 19 God wants to emphasize the sin of sodomy or the homosexual act. God chose it to emphasize first then other sins later.

I wasn't referring that by omitting this sin out of the life of gay people that practices that God was necessarily save them but that it's important not to commit this sin and that they can be saved.
Yes I understand that a person needs to be born again to accept Jesus as their Saviour to confess and repent of their sins.
We are saved by the grace of Christ.

The reason I post at the sister Lounge is because here in America reading in the newspapers many homosexuals think that Christians hate homosexuals. They have been trying to file lawsuits saying that Christians say that living a homosexual lifestyle is wrong.
Here in America to those who practice homosexuality don't want Christians to say that it's wrong to do because the homosexuals have been battling the Christians.

Some homosexuals are building homosexual churches that are saying it's ok to do this. We're going to heaven to God doesn't care about our sexuality. My point was that in the eyes of God it's an abomination and will always be a sin against God. That one who continues in this sin will not be saved. But if you stop doing this sin you have a chance of being saved. And of course what I said earlier accepting Jesus Christ as God and Saviour confessing and repenting our sins.
I perhaps didn't put about being born again in my first post in this thread because my emphasis was on this particular sin which stumbles people who are tempted to do this.
Just as the Bible didn't sum it up in 1 passage neither did I but it was a step in the right direction.

[DJ]

Originally Posted by bearthecross

“I'm not going to mention any names because …. from what I have heard ….”
"....There's been talk about how you have been treating others......"

What does the Bible say about gossip and backbiting?

The Hebrew word translated “gossip” in the Old Testament is defined as “one who reveals secrets, one who goes about as a talebearer or scandal-monger.” A gossiper is a person who has privileged information about people and proceeds to reveal that information to those who have no business knowing it. Gossip is distinguished from sharing information by its intent. Gossipers have the goal of building themselves up by making others look bad and exalting themselves as some kind of repositories of knowledge.

In the book of Romans, Paul reveals the sinful nature and lawlessness of mankind, stating how God poured out His wrath on those who rejected His laws. Because they had turned away from God's instruction and guidance, He gave them over to their sinful natures. The list of sins includes gossips and slanderers (Romans 1:29b-32). We see from this passage how serious the sin of gossip is and that it characterizes those who are under God’s wrath.

The term "backbiting" refers to a form of slander that is made against someone, not to their face, but "behind their back." Backbiting is to speak ill of a believer behind his back, including matters concerning his moralities, appearance, or personality. Not only is backbiting restricted to words, but also it includes every behavior and deed. It's most often used for one of two reasons; the accuser lacks the moral courage [“As for cowards, traitors, depraved, murderers, adulterers, sorcerers, idolators – all those who live in falsehood, their place is the lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8] to make their accusation directly to the one that they have found fault, or because their accusation is a lie that would be readily proved so by the accused person.

Backbiting is however one of the meanest manners and most serious crimes and sins. Even any Muslim reading this likens the backbiter to the one who eats the flesh of the dead.

True Christians are not "backbiters" because true Christians are not liars "Thou shalt not bear false witness", and if they ever rightfully have a problem with a fellow Christian, Jesus Christ instructed how it was to be dealt with in an open and honest way: "If your brother or sister has sinned against you, go and point out the fault when the two of you are in private, and if he listens to you, you have won your brother. If you are not listened to, take with you one or two others so that the case may be decided by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he still refuses to listen to them, tell it to the assembled Church. But he does not listen to the Church, then regard such a one as a pagan or publican." (Matthew 18:15-17)

Originally Posted by bearthecross

Some homosexuals are building homosexual churches ..."

Again this is a misleading innuendo, maybe spawned by lack of knowledge on your part which, like in this case is dangerous. Most 'homosexual' churches base their Statement of Faith on the *Biblical* Exposition of the works of the late Methodist Minister The Reverend George Hopper, entitled 'Reluctant Journey'. The Rev. George Hopper was not a homosexual, he was a very happily married heterosexual husband and father; this is an excerpt from his own testimony ...."for most of my life the very thought of what I saw as homosexuality repulsed me. It is no exaggeration to say that I felt physically sick at the thought of what I assumed it to be. And while I would have done nothing to harm homosexuals, I wanted nothing to do with a group of people whom I saw as choosing a way of life that was both unnatural and an offence to God...."

Over the years I have studied and hotly debated Hoppers 'Reluctant Journey' with the so-called homosexual churches; and because of my opposition to Hoppers homosexual work and the homosexual church, I stand accused and gossiped about there also. So you see Bearthecross, to be an effective Christian we don't seek to be people pleaser's, just like the Prophet Daniel we often dare to be a Daniel and dare to stand alone.

Originally Posted by bearthecross

"....it would appear they were gay because commonly gay men would have sex with gay men...."

Again this is another 'half-truth'. I don't know if you are aware, but for many years I was a British Police Officer and towards the end of my service was consigned to the Vice Squad during the time when all homosexual acts were a criminal offence both in private and in public. In truth I can testify I lost count of the number of persons I arrested and who were convicted of homosexual acts in public places who were married straight men. It was extremely rare to find a gay male performing a sexual act in a public place - it was the married straights that had to resort to public places. Anyone who cares to do a little simple research will discover that a sizeable number of heterosexual men, mostly married men will engage in homosexual acts with gays; Roman and Greek history is riddled with it and it still happens frequently today!

Originally Posted by bearthecross

Here in America to those who practice homosexuality don't want Christians to say that it's wrong to do because the homosexuals have been battling the Christians.

It is the same here in England. No unsaved person wants to be told the sin they are enjoying is wrong. What divine right has one sinner got to tell another sinner they are doing wrong?

Originally Posted by bearthecross

Hey David
I am sorry but rainbowgal and I are leaving this forum.

Goodbye, may the Good Lord be with you and bless you both, may he keep you in the shadow of His Wing and keep your path straight

David